Curse

moriz · Aug 26, 2006, 09:41 PM // 21:41

after EvIL's disasterous VoD finish at the tournament, i think the face of the monk backline will change again. the mo/a teleporting monk, while an excellent build for splits and non-VoD play, cannot hold up in extreme pressure situations. i think after those two matches, not many guilds will try running two mo/a's. with the upcoming changes in GW Nightfall, not many will run dual boon-prots either.

so the question is: what do you think people will start running?

Neo-LD · Aug 26, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Boon / B-Light has always been strong. B-Light was always better as a /Me, if you ask me, and after what just happened other people might go back to that as well.

As a sidenote, when Factions was first previewed, several people, when they saw the assasins, immedeatly joked, "oh no, now there will be tele-kiting korean monks"... well, it didnt happen immedeatly, but look at the GWFC

Tortoise · Aug 27, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

well Mo/A have always been rather crap at dealing with pressure. Still EvIL didn't just lose because they ran Mo/A. It was just one of the many reasons.

Mo/A are still viable and I wouldn't be surprised if EvIL would continue running them. While I agree that Mo/Me kick a Mo/A ass and that noone should even think about running them unless they're as godly kiters as EvIL, Mo/A can really still work.

Byron · Aug 27, 2006, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean22190

I'd really like to see Healing Light or even WoH come back.

Healing Light and channeling have a delicious synergy that could result in a very good amount of healing on a single target (such as a Guild Lord). The problem is cast time, 1s, bleh.

Thom Bangalter · Aug 27, 2006, 07:36 AM // 07:36

i didn't think channelling was used in gvg.

Arkantos · Aug 27, 2006, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

i didn't think channelling was used in gvg.

Who would use channeling in a gvg?

Amadei · Aug 27, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Who would use channeling in a gvg?

Soul Wedding and Only One Star, to name two quite famous monks :P. They've used it with mixed successes; I've seen it being completely useless and I've watched Soul Wedding happily spam heal after heal after heal.

Shortyafter · Aug 27, 2006, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Channeling is godly when you have 4 thumpers + 4 pets running around in the backline.

sir lockt · Aug 27, 2006, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadei

Soul Wedding and Only One Star, to name two quite famous monks :P. They've used it with mixed successes; I've seen it being completely useless and I've watched Soul Wedding happily spam heal after heal after heal.

Yup indeed they run it for quite some time (on the boons they even had channeling). Personally I like it quite a lot, but you need to be a great positioner to give it max-effect, without being killed. That was the trouble I had with it. In boon its double nice for its synergy with CoP.

Vermilion Okeanos · Aug 27, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

I believe mo/a will still be run often (not 2 mo/a at least), especially in ladder season.

You simply can not climb ladder fast enough with turtle build, and that would be why I don't believe people will start using turtle tactic. Unless it is some rank #3000 guild vs rank #5 etc, then watch the 3000 camp your butt till it bleed; as that little extra time would likely give them a win and a big climb.

TheOneMephisto · Aug 27, 2006, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortyafter

Channeling is godly when you have 4 thumpers + 4 pets running around in the backline.

QFT. In the triple smite/thumpway metagame channeling is pure gold. I've seen sould wedding get like +6s from channeling from all the bodies running around.

Drewfense · Aug 27, 2006, 04:26 PM // 16:26

The question of channeling comes up a lot, but it is really good in GvG. Of course it isn't like monking in HoH where you can just press buttons and have infinite energy (guild won halls once with our warriors monking and our monks thumping...), but your always going to have atleast one warrior on you for a consistant +1. With the current meta being warrior/thumper heavy that gets to be an easy +2/3 and with some smart kiting you can consistantly net high numbers. Where channeling is really nice is in high pressure situations like the other team mauling your flag runner. It also synergizes nicely with MoR boon prots. The only problem is that it often comes at the expense of hex removal or drain enchantment.

Healing monks rock...they are just really hard to play. Unlike prot monks, healing monks require much better timing, especially on spikes. Furthermore, there is a lack of self targeting heal spells. Therefore (unless there are some really nice healing monk skills in Nightfall), I doubt that healing monks will become widely popular.

The place where the healing monk really becomes a necessity is versus unbalanced spikes. For the first few months of factions, I ran a woh/infuse mo/me for Shhh and it was quite effective versus the abundance of sb/ri, air spike, and smiters. With the return of ranger spike and the expected unbalance of Nightfall (just looking at the type of skills, there should be some nasty new spike teams), the infuse will be even more valuable. Furthermore, with the dependance of the new classes on enchantments, I suspect rabid enchant stripping will make playing a boon prot a living hell. We will for the most part be reverting to BLight Mo/A + Infuse heal monk, which imo works much better than the boon + blight. The only drawback is to split effectively, the heal monk needs support.

If you don't want to run a heal monk (most guilds wont). I think there will be a resurgence of ritualists (sigh) or greater dependance on splitting.

latbec · Aug 27, 2006, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Blessed Mo/A shines against melee-based builds, which have been quite common in the last ladder season. Thinking that blessed Mo/A are weaker than blessed Mo/Me because of Evil's defeat is a mistake since they were playing in a championship setting where the opponent could plan their counter against it.

Of course, Mo/A can't handle long pressure as well as Mo/Me, but Mo/Me can't defend himself as well as Mo/A against an adrenaline spike for example. They both have their strong points and weak points that you need to consider when you build your monk backline. Player's skill also play an important role: I would not accept that a guest run a Mo/A in my team unless I'm totally sure of his abilities as a monk.

Running a blessed / boon setup for the monk backline is still the way to go IN a ladder season. The randomness setting makes that backline the ideal choice since you can cover most of the builds you will encounter out there.

cookiemonkie · Aug 28, 2006, 03:57 AM // 03:57

And WM won in the finals series running the Mo/A so what does that mean? Absolutely nothing.

All this talk of the Mo/A being inferior and the reason for Evil's losses is exagerated. Evil made other mistakes that cost them the match at VoD, the BL Mo/A held their own, what happened to Evil's offensive output and taking care of the flag? Thats what cost them.

Shortyafter · Aug 28, 2006, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Mo/A's are strong when you have a team who knows how to kite very effectively or otherwise mitigate damage. Unfortunately, the Guild Lord doesn't kite or mitigate any damage, so two Mo/A's simply can not keep it up.

The Fallen One · Aug 28, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Mo/A will still be run, and rightly so, I beleive that it can easily lessen the pressure on one's team and if you getting spiked dark escape can save you 1 out of 2 times. The thing I generally think that Mo/A works well with is the standard Mo/Me boon protection monk,and that Mo/Ax2 as in EvIL's situation just wasn't enough healing to take the pressure. Back to the orginal topic on this thread, what will they do when Nightfall comes out? The exact same thing, boon protection monks and blessed light with whatever Mo/? combination, there's no reason they shouldn't and although the new classes are going to be annoying to deal with there's no reason that Boon protection monks or blessed light monks should be ineffective. On the subject of channeling it's all about situation and it's a bit of an iffy skill, it all depends on the situation. If you've got a melee heavy group on you then it can easily be as good a solution ot energy management as a blood is power on a necro. But if you run into something that relys on spells and ranged attacks to deal their damage, much like my guild's current team build, it is really just something that sits on your bar and looks pretty when you could have other skills. At the time I beleive that it is a good skill to have on your bar with melee builds and adrenal spikes being the flavor of the month. You just have to make the decision between channeling and whatever other skill you would like. Of course I will comment that Mo/A is not weaker than a Mo/Me Blessed combo, it's just the fact that running two of them at the same time is not the ideal stance for VoD, and you have to assume that no matter how your build is planned out that there is going to be a VoD situation where you need the protection and healing that a regular boon protection monk can provide.

Byron · Aug 29, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiemonkie

And WM won in the finals series running the Mo/A so what does that mean?

WM has the best monks - I always thought so, anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortyafter

Mo/A's are strong when you have a team who knows how to kite very effectively or otherwise mitigate damage. Unfortunately, the Guild Lord doesn't kite or mitigate any damage, so two Mo/A's simply can not keep it up.

QFT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

The place where the healing monk really becomes a necessity is versus unbalanced spikes. For the first few months of factions, I ran a woh/infuse mo/me for Shhh and it was quite effective versus the abundance of sb/ri, air spike, and smiters.

I've been running a HL/infuse myself, and with party wide enchantments (eg, our build has orders), energy is a synch. Infusing keeps people alive against balanced spikes as well, but it's always nice to have agaisnt a pure spike. I still don't see pure healers making a comeback anytime soon, though.

Oscar aka 'Hanz' · Sep 14, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

My guild currently runs a Mo/A Blight monk (me most of the time) and a Mo/Me Healing Light Infuser, it works very well (we always have a prodigy with blind and HP/Ext also though)

i'm surprised i havn't seen any Mo/Rt yet using signet of spirits and a spirit spammer in the build, at 10 channeling you only need 3 spirits to get maximum benefit and the energy gain is slightly better than MoR with none of the drawbacks, you could even throw in gaze from beyond so the monk can participate in a rainbow spike or spirit siphon for even more energy (though you do lose out on revealed hex, which sucks)

Byron · Sep 14, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

How interesting, this thread, now in the face of the skill updates. My interest is definitely in alternatives to boon-prot: I'm thinking two blessed light monks won't cut it. So, the healing line comes to mind. There are always the WoH builds, but in lieux of the metagame's focus on pressure, I think something more flexible is needed.

I thought healer primary, with elite e-management. Healign light is pft, IMHO, with cast time of 1s. Heal other and energy drain? Hm, I'd very much like to hear other opinions.

moriz · Sep 14, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

boon prot probably won't disappear for good. they are still the best in terms of quick reactionary healing. however, i believe they will be changed with a secondary big heal in place of sig of devotion or CoP. gift of health comes to mind. that way, they can still heal decently even with divine boon stripped.